tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15644559.post8928228913621829592..comments2024-03-21T03:55:51.565-07:00Comments on Omniorthogonal: Labor and Disciplinemtravenhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02356162954308418556noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15644559.post-68072306773547853072010-09-10T20:32:20.305-07:002010-09-10T20:32:20.305-07:00I know nothing of Guénon, but from what I can find...I know nothing of Guénon, but from what I can find on the web (<a href="http://www.bensozia.com/benideas/guenon.html" rel="nofollow">like this</a>) I'd lump him in with Marxism, the scientific romantics I wrote of a while back, and a whole lot else besides as noble (or not) efforts to stave off the relentless onrush of modernism, which is roughly composed of equal parts science, capitalism, and the instrumental rationality that ties them teogether. Marx thought he'd get ahead of it, Guénon wanted to go backwards, but since both efforts are doomed they amount to the same thing.<br /><br />The Labor Theory of Value is akin to vitalism in biology -- an attempt, mostly wrongheaded but addressing real concerns, to locate and valorize some kind of soul inside a vast inhuman machine.mtravenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02356162954308418556noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15644559.post-10307164612252279982010-09-08T12:27:14.383-07:002010-09-08T12:27:14.383-07:00René Guénon drew very different conclusions from t...René Guénon drew very different conclusions from the same premises as Marx's theory of alienation - and while I don't agree with him any more than I do with Marx, his example is enough to show that the superstructure of Marxism is not necessarily implied by that theory.<br /><br />On the other hand, the labor theory of value, coupled with David Ricardo's "iron law of wages" (which Marx observed to be true under capitalism, but the necessity of which he rejected), lead directly to Marx's conclusion that the profits of capitalists represent the expropriated surplus value of labor, and hence to the rest of Marxist doctrine.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15644559.post-71460454468661078762010-09-07T19:29:08.741-07:002010-09-07T19:29:08.741-07:00Marx's theory of alienation is probably more g...Marx's theory of alienation is probably more germane. <a href="http://marxists.org/archive/fromm/works/1961/man/ch05.htm" rel="nofollow">Here's a good summary from Erich Fromm</a>: <br /><br /><i>For Marx the process of alienation is expressed in work and in the division of labor. Work is for him the active relatedness of man to nature, the creation of a new world, including the creation of man himself. (Intellectual activity is of course, for Marx, always work, like manual or artistic activity.) But as private property and the division of labor develop, labor loses its character of being an expression of man's powers; labor and its products assume an existence separate from man, his will and his planning...Labor is alienated because the work has ceased to be a part of the worker's nature and "consequently, he does not fulfill himself in his work but denies himself, has a feeling of misery rather than well-being, does not develop freely his mental and physical energies but is physically exhausted and mentally debased."</i>mtravenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02356162954308418556noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15644559.post-38598158908875298032010-09-07T14:36:46.649-07:002010-09-07T14:36:46.649-07:00I always thought labor was 'fetishized by Marx...I always thought labor was 'fetishized by Marxists" because the labor theory of value, which Marx borrowed from the classical economists, is the linch-pin of his reasoning. If it is not true, then the rest of the Marxist argument collapses.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com